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	<title>Comments on: Blog Banter 9 &#8211; Never Too Fast</title>
	<atom:link href="http://scrammed.goodfriends.ca/2009/07/blog-banter-9-never-too-fast/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://scrammed.goodfriends.ca/2009/07/blog-banter-9-never-too-fast/</link>
	<description>Tackled by the world of Eve Online</description>
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		<title>By: Luccul</title>
		<link>http://scrammed.goodfriends.ca/2009/07/blog-banter-9-never-too-fast/comment-page-1/#comment-16</link>
		<dc:creator>Luccul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 19:35:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scrammed.goodfriends.ca/?p=39#comment-16</guid>
		<description>@Manasi: I didn&#039;t know they specifically used fluid dynamics, but I knew they weren&#039;t using normal 0G physics. (But the Trajectory Analysis skill has the description &quot;Advanced understanding of zero-G physics&quot; - doh!) However, with respect to the blog banter, I find the speed limitations in the game bothersome, so I proposed a way to do without them. I realize that CCP is highly unlikely to make that kind of a change, but I enjoyed the mental exercise of trying to propose a way to do it with a fairly simple change to the UI, a consequence for too much speed, and without breaking other game mechanics. 

@Flash: Thanks man! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Manasi: I didn&#8217;t know they specifically used fluid dynamics, but I knew they weren&#8217;t using normal 0G physics. (But the Trajectory Analysis skill has the description &#8220;Advanced understanding of zero-G physics&#8221; &#8211; doh!) However, with respect to the blog banter, I find the speed limitations in the game bothersome, so I proposed a way to do without them. I realize that CCP is highly unlikely to make that kind of a change, but I enjoyed the mental exercise of trying to propose a way to do it with a fairly simple change to the UI, a consequence for too much speed, and without breaking other game mechanics. </p>
<p>@Flash: Thanks man! <img src='http://scrammed.goodfriends.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Flash</title>
		<link>http://scrammed.goodfriends.ca/2009/07/blog-banter-9-never-too-fast/comment-page-1/#comment-15</link>
		<dc:creator>Flash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 15:08:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scrammed.goodfriends.ca/?p=39#comment-15</guid>
		<description>Great post!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post!</p>
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		<title>By: Manasi</title>
		<link>http://scrammed.goodfriends.ca/2009/07/blog-banter-9-never-too-fast/comment-page-1/#comment-14</link>
		<dc:creator>Manasi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 00:42:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scrammed.goodfriends.ca/?p=39#comment-14</guid>
		<description>You realize that EVE is based on fluid dynamics not zero gravity right?...way back when it was created that was the model they chose.  Therefore it stands to reasons that the EVE version of space is not the Newtonian version :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You realize that EVE is based on fluid dynamics not zero gravity right?&#8230;way back when it was created that was the model they chose.  Therefore it stands to reasons that the EVE version of space is not the Newtonian version <img src='http://scrammed.goodfriends.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Luccul</title>
		<link>http://scrammed.goodfriends.ca/2009/07/blog-banter-9-never-too-fast/comment-page-1/#comment-13</link>
		<dc:creator>Luccul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 02:46:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scrammed.goodfriends.ca/?p=39#comment-13</guid>
		<description>@H: For ships that can warp cloaked, like Cov Ops, Force Recon, and SB, I don&#039;t see any difference in navigation. So you could get up to a very fast speed (over the safe speed)coming straight at your target, drop your cloak and fire bombs or torps. If you change direction too hard at too fast a speed, you could pop a ship, but that would happen cloaked or not.

Now your regular ships that fit a cloak are speed restricted, currently. I&#039;d change that such that their cloak would fail once they crossed a certain speed (well below their normal safe speed), not like today when you just can go any faster until you drop the cloak.

This could apply to the SBs too, and other cloakers, if allowing them to charge around at very high speeds while cloaked is too much of an advantage. If they exceed their normal safe speed (or some other set limit), their cloak would fail. Or if they exceed some amount of structure strain. There are several options.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@H: For ships that can warp cloaked, like Cov Ops, Force Recon, and SB, I don&#8217;t see any difference in navigation. So you could get up to a very fast speed (over the safe speed)coming straight at your target, drop your cloak and fire bombs or torps. If you change direction too hard at too fast a speed, you could pop a ship, but that would happen cloaked or not.</p>
<p>Now your regular ships that fit a cloak are speed restricted, currently. I&#8217;d change that such that their cloak would fail once they crossed a certain speed (well below their normal safe speed), not like today when you just can go any faster until you drop the cloak.</p>
<p>This could apply to the SBs too, and other cloakers, if allowing them to charge around at very high speeds while cloaked is too much of an advantage. If they exceed their normal safe speed (or some other set limit), their cloak would fail. Or if they exceed some amount of structure strain. There are several options.</p>
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		<title>By: H</title>
		<link>http://scrammed.goodfriends.ca/2009/07/blog-banter-9-never-too-fast/comment-page-1/#comment-12</link>
		<dc:creator>H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 00:27:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scrammed.goodfriends.ca/?p=39#comment-12</guid>
		<description>One thing...

Start way off target point in, say, a Stealth Bomber and accelerate in. Would dropping the cloak cause completely massive strain such that you would pop, and would you be able to drop a bomb or torps at that speed...?

Could make for some very interesting tactics if it did work :)

Just a thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing&#8230;</p>
<p>Start way off target point in, say, a Stealth Bomber and accelerate in. Would dropping the cloak cause completely massive strain such that you would pop, and would you be able to drop a bomb or torps at that speed&#8230;?</p>
<p>Could make for some very interesting tactics if it did work <img src='http://scrammed.goodfriends.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Just a thought.</p>
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		<title>By: tramov</title>
		<link>http://scrammed.goodfriends.ca/2009/07/blog-banter-9-never-too-fast/comment-page-1/#comment-11</link>
		<dc:creator>tramov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 03:05:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scrammed.goodfriends.ca/?p=39#comment-11</guid>
		<description>&lt;I&gt;Is there a fixed edge to the solar systems? I know the grid can grow as you move, so perhaps the grid just goes with you indefinitely?&lt;/I&gt;

Some people tried to cross into Jovian space by flying their spaceships for a very long time. In the end the made it there .. according to the map. (the map has many problems, this being one of them)

However each solarsystems in EVE is run by a single node on Tranquility. It will only transfer you from one node to another when you go through a stargate. 

So yes, you can fly in any direction for a long long time, you will however not end up anywhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Is there a fixed edge to the solar systems? I know the grid can grow as you move, so perhaps the grid just goes with you indefinitely?</i></p>
<p>Some people tried to cross into Jovian space by flying their spaceships for a very long time. In the end the made it there .. according to the map. (the map has many problems, this being one of them)</p>
<p>However each solarsystems in EVE is run by a single node on Tranquility. It will only transfer you from one node to another when you go through a stargate. </p>
<p>So yes, you can fly in any direction for a long long time, you will however not end up anywhere.</p>
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		<title>By: Luccul</title>
		<link>http://scrammed.goodfriends.ca/2009/07/blog-banter-9-never-too-fast/comment-page-1/#comment-10</link>
		<dc:creator>Luccul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 01:57:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scrammed.goodfriends.ca/?p=39#comment-10</guid>
		<description>@Achernar: Your web point is good - it shows one nerf that I&#039;d missed - if you are being orbited by a small fast ship, that ship won&#039;t have to worry about your web range, because your webifier won&#039;t slow it down, only block it&#039;s acceleration. 

Actually, there&#039;s another problem with my proposal - if you can&#039;t accelerate when webbed, the gate campers have an &quot;I win&quot; button. Your ship can be held at a standstill if webbed by campers when you decloak, post jump. A ship still needs to be able to get moving from a stopped state, especially after jumping.

So I think the solution is that the webifier will interfere with a target&#039;s systems such that the max safe speed is reduced, as well as reducing acceleration beyond that max speed. So if you web an orbiting ship and it&#039;s speed is now over the max safe speed forced by the webifier, then the ship&#039;s structure will take on more strain than it can handle and if it doesn&#039;t slow down, or stop/change the orbit, structure damage will follow. If you&#039;re in a straight-line chase, then you have reduced ability to accelerate beyond the web-reduced maximum, but you still can.  

So the webifier will reduce a target&#039;s maximum safe speed, and inhibit acceleration beyond that max speed. For a ship with an AB, the webifier reduces the max safe speed and inhibits acceleration down from the enhanced levels given by the AB. For a ship with a MWD, its the same:  the webifier reduces the max safe speed and inhibits acceleration down from the enhanced levels given by the MWD. If you scram the ship too, you knock out the MWD, and the webifier acts on the target&#039;s base max safe speed and acceleration attributes, which is in line with a scram+web vs MWD target today.

That better? I think so. 

About the acceleration strain idea: I see the point, but you&#039;d need to be able to set the acceleration. Presently, the UI lets you set the speed you want to be at, and the ship accelerates/decelerates to that speed (I assume the ship calculates the optimum acceleration). So that would be a radical shift in the UI controls - from 1 target speed setting, to effectively a gas-pedal/brake-pedal control where how hard you press on the control is a factor. Might not be ideal for a mouse-driven interface.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Achernar: Your web point is good &#8211; it shows one nerf that I&#8217;d missed &#8211; if you are being orbited by a small fast ship, that ship won&#8217;t have to worry about your web range, because your webifier won&#8217;t slow it down, only block it&#8217;s acceleration. </p>
<p>Actually, there&#8217;s another problem with my proposal &#8211; if you can&#8217;t accelerate when webbed, the gate campers have an &#8220;I win&#8221; button. Your ship can be held at a standstill if webbed by campers when you decloak, post jump. A ship still needs to be able to get moving from a stopped state, especially after jumping.</p>
<p>So I think the solution is that the webifier will interfere with a target&#8217;s systems such that the max safe speed is reduced, as well as reducing acceleration beyond that max speed. So if you web an orbiting ship and it&#8217;s speed is now over the max safe speed forced by the webifier, then the ship&#8217;s structure will take on more strain than it can handle and if it doesn&#8217;t slow down, or stop/change the orbit, structure damage will follow. If you&#8217;re in a straight-line chase, then you have reduced ability to accelerate beyond the web-reduced maximum, but you still can.  </p>
<p>So the webifier will reduce a target&#8217;s maximum safe speed, and inhibit acceleration beyond that max speed. For a ship with an AB, the webifier reduces the max safe speed and inhibits acceleration down from the enhanced levels given by the AB. For a ship with a MWD, its the same:  the webifier reduces the max safe speed and inhibits acceleration down from the enhanced levels given by the MWD. If you scram the ship too, you knock out the MWD, and the webifier acts on the target&#8217;s base max safe speed and acceleration attributes, which is in line with a scram+web vs MWD target today.</p>
<p>That better? I think so. </p>
<p>About the acceleration strain idea: I see the point, but you&#8217;d need to be able to set the acceleration. Presently, the UI lets you set the speed you want to be at, and the ship accelerates/decelerates to that speed (I assume the ship calculates the optimum acceleration). So that would be a radical shift in the UI controls &#8211; from 1 target speed setting, to effectively a gas-pedal/brake-pedal control where how hard you press on the control is a factor. Might not be ideal for a mouse-driven interface.</p>
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		<title>By: Achernar</title>
		<link>http://scrammed.goodfriends.ca/2009/07/blog-banter-9-never-too-fast/comment-page-1/#comment-9</link>
		<dc:creator>Achernar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 00:12:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scrammed.goodfriends.ca/?p=39#comment-9</guid>
		<description>Interesting idea, but maybe the strain should also depend from the acceleration speed rather than from the actual speed? That is, a ship trying to get out of range of hostiles in a short timeframe would suffer heavy structural damage (I like the idea on direct damage to structure, as it opens options for tactics and fittings), while any ship could end up going tremendously fast without damage, just by accelerating slowly? It might make chases more tactical. I would disagree with the web change you are suggesting though as I feel it would effectively nerf the module.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting idea, but maybe the strain should also depend from the acceleration speed rather than from the actual speed? That is, a ship trying to get out of range of hostiles in a short timeframe would suffer heavy structural damage (I like the idea on direct damage to structure, as it opens options for tactics and fittings), while any ship could end up going tremendously fast without damage, just by accelerating slowly? It might make chases more tactical. I would disagree with the web change you are suggesting though as I feel it would effectively nerf the module.</p>
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		<title>By: Luccul</title>
		<link>http://scrammed.goodfriends.ca/2009/07/blog-banter-9-never-too-fast/comment-page-1/#comment-8</link>
		<dc:creator>Luccul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:51:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scrammed.goodfriends.ca/?p=39#comment-8</guid>
		<description>@Harbinger: I wonder how long it would take. You&#039;d not get to warp speed, and I expect that it would take days to do it, or maybe only hours.

Is there a fixed edge to the solar systems? I know the grid can grow as you move, so perhaps the grid just goes with you indefinitely?

It&#039;s good to learn such a mechanic is working in another game - I was nervous about the post in case there was some glaring hole it the logic that I was missing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Harbinger: I wonder how long it would take. You&#8217;d not get to warp speed, and I expect that it would take days to do it, or maybe only hours.</p>
<p>Is there a fixed edge to the solar systems? I know the grid can grow as you move, so perhaps the grid just goes with you indefinitely?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s good to learn such a mechanic is working in another game &#8211; I was nervous about the post in case there was some glaring hole it the logic that I was missing.</p>
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		<title>By: HarbingerZero</title>
		<link>http://scrammed.goodfriends.ca/2009/07/blog-banter-9-never-too-fast/comment-page-1/#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator>HarbingerZero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 19:52:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scrammed.goodfriends.ca/?p=39#comment-7</guid>
		<description>Heh, I just had a mental picture - I was wondering what it would look like if you started at one end of a system, accelerated all the way to the other side, and then pounded the invisible wall at the other edge of the solar system at some ridiculously high speed.

More seriously though, I believe this mechanic is present in the Starfleet Command games, and added an interesting component to the battles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh, I just had a mental picture &#8211; I was wondering what it would look like if you started at one end of a system, accelerated all the way to the other side, and then pounded the invisible wall at the other edge of the solar system at some ridiculously high speed.</p>
<p>More seriously though, I believe this mechanic is present in the Starfleet Command games, and added an interesting component to the battles.</p>
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